julia_beck: Rectangular cake with white frosting and yellow inscription "AO3= <3" (Default)
[personal profile] julia_beck
Currently rippling its way across the journalsphere and and Twitter (hastag #deliciousfail) is the disastrous launch of the new Delicious(see this snarky summary [tumblr] or listen to [streaming link] this emergency slashcast by [personal profile] rageprufrock& MKlutz.)

Personally, I feel equal parts naive (yes, exported & saved bookmarks, but created no backup account) and sad: yet another part of essential fandom infrastructure failing. UGH.

When I think of [livejournal.com profile] jenna_marianne's meticulously curated Inception bookmarks being scattered to the wind (phew, not quite, luckily) I can't help but feel upset. (I'm not thinking of the state of delicious-compiled fandom newsletter right now, or I might just cry.)

And yes, of course, my immediate instinct is that a fandom-supported solution is pretty much the only thing we can depend on.

But, uhm, can we?


[personal profile] jennyst asks Archive of Our Own users what they want out of AO3 bookmarks; but personally, I don't think that the AO3 can fill that particular gap.

My biggest reservation isn't so much that developing a full-featured bookmarking service is a major project in its own right, not just an adjunct to AO3; it's that I'm not into bookmarking for the fanworks only -- I'm all about cataloguing wank and user-written game walkthroughs and, of course, ALL the meta (like [personal profile] sevilemar and many others, I am dreaming of an Archive of Our Meta built with the otwarchive software package 1.0)


So it's back to commercial/disinterested/hostile providers, for the moment.

But looking ahead: Do you think that a comprehensive bookmarking service from fans for fans, tailored to our needs even better than the old delicious, is something you a) would want b) would support c) can see happening?


(speaking of which, I need to check what's going on at [livejournal.com profile] deliciouslymad.)

Date: 2011-09-27 09:02 pm (UTC)
juniperphoenix: Fire in the shape of a bird (Default)
From: [personal profile] juniperphoenix
Personally, I would not use such a service. But I'm not a social bookmarker; I keep my bookmarks private, and for me the primary value of Delicious was in its convenience and organization. I want a service where I can keep all of my bookmarks — not only a diverse range of fannish bookmarks, but also bookmarks for things like dictionaries and web design resources and my doctor's office — in one place.

In other words, I'm not really the target use-case for your question. :) However, I can certainly see how a fannishly-oriented bookmarking service would be useful for reccers or others who make extensive use of social bookmarking features.

Date: 2011-09-27 10:58 pm (UTC)
copracat: Maria from the film Metropolis holding an OTW travel mug (OTW Maria)
From: [personal profile] copracat
Once yahoo wouldn't let you make a new delicious without a yahoo id, I migrated to diigo. I do not like being forced by acquisition to combine my online ids.


But looking ahead: Do you think that a comprehensive bookmarking service from fans for fans, tailored to our needs even better than the old delicious, is something you a) would want


I'd be happy to have something that delivered what delicious delivered. It wouldn't need to be tailored for fans but listened to user requests.

b) would support

But I would support it

c) can see happening?

No, I think fans are pretty capable and, even as we speak, are forming pinboard and diigo into replacements.

Date: 2011-09-28 01:20 am (UTC)
unjapanologist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] unjapanologist
But looking ahead: Do you think that a comprehensive bookmarking service from fans for fans, tailored to our needs even better than the old delicious, is something you a) would want b) would support c) can see happening?

a) Yes, if I can also keep non-fannish bookmarks there (which I assume wouldn't be a problem, the service might be tailored specifically towards fannish needs but that wouldn't stop me from bookmarking unrelated things). And good import/export and perhaps even automated backup functionality would be a must for me, since I assume we'd be using the service at least partly because it would be very trustworthy.

I'm probably not the only one paranoid about backup functionality right now, and I think that a very easily usable and reliable way to take offline backups is pretty much a right for any social bookmark user. I ended up switching away from diigo, which I loved, in part because I the backup/download functionality failed to download half of my bookmarks, and support ignored me every time I begged them to have a look at my problem. Must. Have. Offline. Backup. Grrrr.

If a fannish bookmarking service could give me that, then yes b) I would want it so badly. I would love to be able to be absolutely sure that the service I'm using is committed to letting me keep absolute control of my data. I don't trust any existing bookmarking service anymore. Right now, I've retreated back into evernote for my bookmarks because it takes offline backups automatically. But evernote isn't a social service, and I miss that aspect of bookmarking.

c) I can see it happening, but not with AO3 bookmarks as they are -I think they're great for reccing, but not for bookmarking. And there is value to having separate but closely interconnected services. I think a bookmarking service would have to be a new project, which could actually be a big plus because we could start from zero instead of being limited by the architecture of the AO3 (which was geared to be awesome at a different function entirely).

Date: 2011-09-29 01:03 am (UTC)
unjapanologist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] unjapanologist
A fannish bookmarking service probably would be as 'forever' as any web service is likely to be. I don't think that's the problem - we can all accept that web services can and probably will go boom.

What a fannish bookmark service could do better is instilling trust by a) having fannish management and b) making the whole thing perfectly reproducible. Open source software plus dirt-easy and reliable data backup for individual users, and we have all we need to take things into our own hands in case something happens to the original service. Or in case we end up not liking the management, fannish or not, and want our own fork of the service.

I think the OTW has a lot to contribute because they have experience organising open source projects. Personally, I don't think I'd trust anything new that isn't open source, but I'm eager to work on this whether the OTW is involved or not. Contacted rageprufrock and co via twitter already. Let's make this roll ;)

Date: 2011-09-28 06:06 am (UTC)
franzeska: (Default)
From: [personal profile] franzeska
I just paid Pinboard $10. I'll pay a fannish bookmarking service $10 if someone makes one (and probably a meta archive too if that were a different thing). It would require some people with a lot of passion, skill, time, and lack of current overwhelming OTW duties to take it on. It could happen. I'm sure not holding my breath, but I'll open my wallet if something promising comes along.

I think there's a huge need for this. AO3 may one day be fantastic for fic bookmarks (or art or vids). A meta archive would be a good place for meta bookmarks. But what about episode guides and straightforward fandom primers? What about video editing software tutorials? What about research materials? "Meta" covers a lot, but it does not cover every single non-fic type of writing in fandom or everything else I'd want to bookmark as part of my fandom activities.

I'm not much of a social bookmarker either, but I like seeing other people's bookmarks and I like being able to get at mine from anywhere. The main thing I used delicious for was to organize my list of things to log into/look at for OTW work (the vault, 16bugs, my AO3 wrangling homepage, AO3 admin login, test archive, internal documentation wiki, my google docs, Fanlore, Campfire, Basecamp, the main OTW site, and some specific blog posts, a number of which have hard-to-remember URLs).

Date: 2011-09-28 07:45 am (UTC)
mllesatine: two women taking swigs from their beer bottles (Countries that shouldn't cry for me)
From: [personal profile] mllesatine
I don't believe that fandom has fundamentally different needs than other people who bookmark their stuff. Being able to see all your tags (or even bookmarks for that matter) must be something everyone expects from their bookmarking site.

So no, I can't see it happening and I don't think it's something that I need.

Oh, and I didn't create a mirror account either. Why didn't I?

Date: 2011-09-28 07:12 pm (UTC)
jenna_marianne: drawing of girl with brown hair and pink scarf (Default)
From: [personal profile] jenna_marianne
Oh, hello! I was just checking out fandom reactions and there was my name. Thanks for the complement re my bookmarks.

I'm also checking out pinboard (http://pinboard.in/u:jenna_marianne); I'm kinda split between diigo & pinboard, but kinda leaning toward pinboard. Of course, nothing has as much functionality as the old delicious. ;_;

Date: 2011-09-28 10:38 pm (UTC)
jenna_marianne: drawing of girl with brown hair and pink scarf (Default)
From: [personal profile] jenna_marianne
OTW all the way! ;)

Yeah, if there was a fun-run bookmarking site, I'd totally contribute ~$10.

What's your username on pinboard? I can't see you in my network. You might have it set to private. If you're interested, you can switch your network from anonymous to public go to https://pinboard.in/settings/beta & click the ticky box.

Date: 2011-09-28 11:47 pm (UTC)
jenna_marianne: drawing of girl with brown hair and pink scarf (Default)
From: [personal profile] jenna_marianne
circle me?

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julia_beck: Rectangular cake with white frosting and yellow inscription "AO3= <3" (Default)
Julia Beck

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